Them's the brakes
Them's the brakes
It turns out my joy ride after getting Faulkner running right, was not very joyful at all; the brakes -- rear, I think -- are locking up on me. At one point, they gave a terrifying squeal as if I had slammed on the brakes. We made it to the gas station (used a lot of gas tinkering, doncha know) and managed to creep back to the garage, but I can see that I've got to pull the rear drums and find out what's going on. Hoping it's not a leaking wheel cylinder, although I don't see any evidence of that.
No time for a disk brake job; the Dutch/German/Portuguese invasion is about to get underway, and Carlisle will be here in no time. Gotta get these drum brakes working, that's all there is to it.
Dan
No time for a disk brake job; the Dutch/German/Portuguese invasion is about to get underway, and Carlisle will be here in no time. Gotta get these drum brakes working, that's all there is to it.
Dan
"If it's new, Plymouth's got it!"
Well, I pulled the rear drum on the passenger side -- no sign of a leak, but wow, there's a lot of brake dust. The shoes have a bit of glaze to them, and there's one spot that looks a little scuffed. I plan to lightly sand the shoes with emory paper, then clean the whole mess up with brake cleaner spray. Anyone have any other suggestions? Tomorrow I plan to pull the driver's side rear...
Dan
Dan
"If it's new, Plymouth's got it!"
Anyway, as far as the brakes, when you step on them, they lock up and stay locked, or they try and grab/lockup everytime you step on the brake ?
I used to have a problem with one of my front wheel locking up after the car had been parked for a bit but a few steps on the pedal would clear it up.
Anyway, if you have no leaking wheel cylinders. I would check to see that both wheel clyinders are working correctly, expanding and contracting. To check that, usually I take one drum off and use two screws drivers, prybars, whatever you have and use them to hold pressure on the shoes like the drums would, then have someone slowly press the pedal and watch the shoes move in and out. To see that they do it smoothly. Maybe a frozed wheel cylinder or a ridge on one keeping it open. Or possibly a collapsed brake line not letting the fluid return and hanging the brakes on.
Other than that, all I could come up with is a drum out of round or something, but I think you would have noticed that on previous drives already.
Nick
I used to have a problem with one of my front wheel locking up after the car had been parked for a bit but a few steps on the pedal would clear it up.
Anyway, if you have no leaking wheel cylinders. I would check to see that both wheel clyinders are working correctly, expanding and contracting. To check that, usually I take one drum off and use two screws drivers, prybars, whatever you have and use them to hold pressure on the shoes like the drums would, then have someone slowly press the pedal and watch the shoes move in and out. To see that they do it smoothly. Maybe a frozed wheel cylinder or a ridge on one keeping it open. Or possibly a collapsed brake line not letting the fluid return and hanging the brakes on.
Other than that, all I could come up with is a drum out of round or something, but I think you would have noticed that on previous drives already.
Nick
They grab when I step on the brake, Nick, drag when I release and eventually free up.njdrt-rdr wrote:Anyway, as far as the brakes, when you step on them, they lock up and stay locked, or they try and grab/lockup everytime you step on the brake ?
Yeah, pumping doesn't seem to help here.njdrt-rdr wrote:
I used to have a problem with one of my front wheel locking up after the car had been parked for a bit but a few steps on the pedal would clear it up.
Well, I think my first step -- after I confirm the other side is not leaking -- is to clean everything up, take some emory to the shoes lightly, then slap it back together and see where that gets me.njdrt-rdr wrote: Anyway, if you have no leaking wheel cylinders. I would check to see that both wheel clyinders are working correctly, expanding and contracting. To check that, usually I take one drum off and use two screws drivers, prybars, whatever you have and use them to hold pressure on the shoes like the drums would, then have someone slowly press the pedal and watch the shoes move in and out. To see that they do it smoothly. Maybe a frozed wheel cylinder or a ridge on one keeping it open. Or possibly a collapsed brake line not letting the fluid return and hanging the brakes on.
Other than that, all I could come up with is a drum out of round or something, but I think you would have noticed that on previous drives already.
I don't hear so well anymore, but it seems likely to me the screech I heard came from the rear. And if the front were grabbing, I would expect to have felt that in the steering wheel -- correct? And I didn't...
Dan
"If it's new, Plymouth's got it!"
Bob, I put a very thin film of bearing grease on the shafts when I did the brakes a couple of years ago. It popped right off. (Hope the other side doesn't make a liar of meNighthawk wrote:Also, you should check the return springs to make sure they are working properly, how much trouble did you have getting the rear drums off?
)Dan
"If it's new, Plymouth's got it!"
OK, the driver's side popped off easily too. And just like the passenger side, the driver's side was loaded with brake dust. And... at the very bottom... it was a little, er, gummy. But, no leak from the cylinder. Hmmm...
And then I noticed -- the pumpkin seal I had replaced by Midas last summer, was leaking. I guess Midas doesn't have the "Midas Touch" after all. Looks like it managed to creep across the axle housing at high speed, and found its way behind the backing plate...
OK, I cleaned up the rear drums as best I could. I bet they don't grab now. Looks like I've got another rear seal replacement in my future (this time, I've got to find a real mechanic. Maybe I'll work on getting a green card for Matthew). Tomorrow, I'll top off the brake fluid (Dot 5), and take Faulkner out for another spin.
Carlisle, here we come...
Dan
And then I noticed -- the pumpkin seal I had replaced by Midas last summer, was leaking. I guess Midas doesn't have the "Midas Touch" after all. Looks like it managed to creep across the axle housing at high speed, and found its way behind the backing plate...
OK, I cleaned up the rear drums as best I could. I bet they don't grab now. Looks like I've got another rear seal replacement in my future (this time, I've got to find a real mechanic. Maybe I'll work on getting a green card for Matthew). Tomorrow, I'll top off the brake fluid (Dot 5), and take Faulkner out for another spin.
Carlisle, here we come...
Dan
"If it's new, Plymouth's got it!"
Topped off the Dot 5, and bumped the idle up just a bit. Eased Faulkner out into traffic, stepped on the brakes -- he stopped, no squeal, no grabbing brakes! I want to take it for a longer drive when company arrives, but I think Faulkner's ready for a road trip.
Dan
Dan
"If it's new, Plymouth's got it!"
Hi Dan - Glad to hear you brake problem is solved. When I first got my SF I removed the rear drums with great dificulty and when I put them back on I used grease thinking they would come off easily next time. Then I read somewhere the worst thing you can do is put grease on the axles. Well the next time I had to take them off nothing would get them to pop, I used a hub puller and heat to no avail. To get them to pop I had to use a 16 lb. sledge and after about six whacks they popped off. Needless to say I destroyed the drums. I used never-seize and have not had a problem since. Good luck next time.
Dick
Dick
Life is Beautiful! Sex, Beer & Mopars.
You're right! It's been a couple of years, but I remember that's what I used too. A little dab'll do you. And it explains why the drums came off so easily for me (of course, having the right drum puller helped too).Dick Koch wrote:I used never-seize and have not had a problem since. Good luck next time.
Dan
"If it's new, Plymouth's got it!"
Faulkner wrote:OK, the driver's side popped off easily too. And just like the passenger side, the driver's side was loaded with brake dust. And... at the very bottom... it was a little, er, gummy. But, no leak from the cylinder. Hmmm...
And then I noticed -- the pumpkin seal I had replaced by Midas last summer, was leaking. I guess Midas doesn't have the "Midas Touch" after all. Looks like it managed to creep across the axle housing at high speed, and found its way behind the backing plate...
Well, the brakes are fine after you take it for a spin. But let it sit for a while, and there's the same old screech when you start off...Roger wrote:best of luck..to me it sounds like your cylinders are at fault...but only time and testing will prove the result..
I popped the driver's side rear again, because that's where it seemed to me the noise was coming from. Again, more dust, not damp, but not dry either -- and somewhat gummy on the lower part of the rear shoe. But, no sign of a leak. I popped the cover back, looks dry... but wait! Little droplets of fluid on the neoprene cover! A sure sign of a minor leak...
Gotta hand it to Roger, he's the best 3,000 mile diagnostician I know of. I'm not gonna fool around with rebuilding, I'll just order a new one. Thanks, Rog!
Dan
"If it's new, Plymouth's got it!"
well gorsh...
once you replace that cylinder, do you recall the order in which you ought to bleed the brakes? (I Don't). Is it nearest, lowest cylinder first, then furthest (and highest) last? Think like an airbubble, which is what you are trying to purge.....
If you are careful during the change-out, air infiltration should be minimal, unless you leavew an open line and it begins to drip...Remember to "bench-bleed" the cylinder as best you can, prior to installation..
once you replace that cylinder, do you recall the order in which you ought to bleed the brakes? (I Don't). Is it nearest, lowest cylinder first, then furthest (and highest) last? Think like an airbubble, which is what you are trying to purge.....
If you are careful during the change-out, air infiltration should be minimal, unless you leavew an open line and it begins to drip...Remember to "bench-bleed" the cylinder as best you can, prior to installation..
Yup, will do that.rogerh wrote:Remember to "bench-bleed" the cylinder as best you can, prior to installation..
Do I need to bleed all lines? Whenever I've replaced a single cylinder, I've never done that... Bubbles can only travel uphill (meaning, heavier fluid can only travel downhill). With that wheel up in the air, above the others, as long as I lose less fluid than what's in the length of line (should be easy), the bubble would have to travel downhill to reach the other lines. I think I'm safe -- as long as I keep it up in the air when I bleed, and I minimize fluid loss.rogerh wrote:once you replace that cylinder, do you recall the order in which you ought to bleed the brakes? (I Don't). Is it nearest, lowest cylinder first, then furthest (and highest) last? Think like an airbubble, which is what you are trying to purge...
Dan
"If it's new, Plymouth's got it!"