'59 Plymouth Forum

Hi Everyone,

I am working on a 59 Sport Fury Convertible. There has been quite a bit of homemade rust repair to the floors and rear sections of the trunk floor extending past the rear body mounts. The mounts in those areas all are homemade and the surviving original mounts in the other areas seem to have the bushings all removed. Since some of the mounts and the surrounding metal are history I was wondering if it is possible for anyone to send me pictures of their body mounts and supports so I can have an idea of how they originally appeared? Also, how does the convertible body mounting compare with a coupe? I'll be searching the wrecking yards for donor pieces I'm sure. Any help is appreciated!

Hello and Welcome to the Forum! I will have to dig out some pics of my car's unique mounting points for ya. The rear part of the convertible car,aft of seating area is the same for coupes and Sedans. As you probably have surmised the frame for a convertible is different. The steel X frame part for rigidity is evident. There is also one set of extra body supports that stick out from the frame (both sides) for additional support of the main floor boards and underneath seating support brackets. Essentially a box like device that is spot welded to the underfloor brace and attach via a bolt to the extra frame support brace mentioned above. These are only on Convertible bodies.

You can cruise thru my Flickr link below to see some of my work but I will attach a pic of this special brace on this posting. Another unique feature I recently discovered is that on convertibles the forward body mounting point does not have a rubber isolater but a metal cup. Just saw these on an ebay ad and went out to my car and yes I have them too!

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayI ... MEWAX%3AIT

You will have to see if yours are there or not. I will take some more pics of different points of my convertible for you.

John Q.

Here is a picture from someone else's convertible with the special frame/seat support and with the underfloor seat support and box still installed, albeit, needing replacement.

John - Hope this helps.
Dick.











Here is some great information from Alan Ralston, Alan is the supplier of the Seat Brackets. Ron have you heard andything about and can you help with the supplier of door sill plates for Desotos in sweden?

Dick.

--- On Sat, 3/19/11, Alan Ralston <desotodriver@hotmail.com> wrote:



Dear 1959 Restorers:

Doug called me and requested information about body mount hardware for the convertible. The convertible is a little different than the sedan, hardtop or wagon. Here is what I documented from my Adventurer convertible:

There are four "outriggers" on the sides of the frame. Each one of them has a body mount. All hardware is described from the top down. The convertible has a mini-outrigger at position 2.5

Outrigger #1 - This is just ahead of the firewall. You can see this mount from the engine compartment.

Bolt with "DPCD" on the head. If yours is no good, go ahead and use a grade 5 bolt 3/8-24 x 1 1/2 inches long.
External (teeth on the outside) star washer
Large flat washer 1 1/2 inch diameter, 1/8 inch thick
Second large flat washer (same as above)
--- support that is part of the body just ahead of the firewall
--- frame outrigger #1
Large flat washer (same as above)
External star washer (same as above)
Nut 3/8-24

Outrigger #2 - This is found in the front floor.

Bolt with "DPCD" head. 3/8-24 x 2 1/4 inches long.
Large flat washer 1 1/2 inch diameter, 1/8 inch thick
--- front floor pan
--- support bracket beneath floor
Special metal "T" bracket
Rubber donut with shoulder
---- frame outrigger #2
Rubber donut
Special washer (almost 2 inch diameter, 12 sided, 1/8 inch thick)
Nut 3/8-24

Outrigger 2.5 (Convertible Only) Hardware described from the bottom up.

Bolt with "DPCD" head 3/8-24 x 1 1/2 inches long
Large flat washer 1 1/2 inch diameter, 1/8 inch thick
Flat washer that appears to be welded to the bottom of the small outrigger
--- rectangular bracket that looks like a box welded to the lower side of the front seat track support beneath the floor pan
--- nut plate welded inside this convertible only bracket.

Outrigger #3

Bolt grade 5 3/8-24 x 3 inches long
Large flat washer 1 1/2 inch diameter, 1/8 inch thick
Second large flat washer
--- depressed "cone" that is part of the floor pan
--- "deep draw" support bracket that is located beneath the floor pan. This bracket is at the very rear of the seat track support.
--- frame outrigger #3
Large flat washer (same as above)
External star washer
Nut 3/8-24

Outrigger #4 (outer position)

hardware is identical to Outrigger #2 described above

Outrigger #4 (inner position)

Special "T" nut 3/8-24 threads, 1 inch tall overall / 5/16 inch thick "head" and 11/16 inch thick shaft that has a diameter of 1/2 inch
VERY large flat washer about 1 3/4 or 1 7/8 inch diameter, 1/8 inch thick
Rubber donut with shoulder
--- floor pan
--- support bracket beneath floor
Stud coming up from frame with 3/8-24 thread
Rubber donut
Threaded nut plate attached to top of frame with 3/8-24 thread

Body Mount #5

Rubber bumper on top of frame rail. The bumper is 1 1/2 inches in diameter and is 1/2 inch thick. There is a "barb" that attaches it to a hole in the frame

Body Mount #6 The following is for cars other than the station wagon, which is different.

Special "T" nut (as described in #4 inner)
VERY large flat washer (as described in #4 inner)
Rubber donut with shoulder
--- trunk floor
Rubber donut
Stud coming up from rear cross member of frame with 3/8-24 threads
Threaded nut plate in rear cross member with 3/8-24 threads.

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I bought my rubber donuts from Restoration Specialties, PO Box 328, Windber, PA 15963.
(814) 467-9842
www.restorationspecialties.com

The donut with the "shoulder" is CHRYBM for $5.25 each. The main pad is .64 inches thick. I may thin that down to 1/2 inch.

The donut (no shoulder) is CHRBM1 for $5.25 each. Again, the thickness of the pad is about .64 inches and I think I may need to thin this down to 1/2 inch.

Both pads are 2 inches in diameter with a .61 inch hole. They are made of a good grade of rubber and have a quality look to them.

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I hope this will be of some help for people who are ready to mount their bodies to the chassis. If you have questions, I can take photos of the individual parts and attach them to an email if needed.

On a different topic:

Barrie in Nova Scotia is looking for a dryer canister for his factory air conditioning system. He also needs a pair of horns and sill plates for his convertible (same as the two door hardtop). What are people using for the sill plates? I heard there is a fellow in Sweden making reproductions? Anyone have any info on this???

Please reply to ALL on these messages. I want to share info with the entire group because we will all need this info at some point and there is no need to reinvent the wheel every time.

Stan and I are going to try to record information that is shared in these messages on a website. The site is already there: www.1959DeSoto.com however we have not established a format and procedures for updating it yet.

Alan












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Thanks! I appreciate all the detailed information. Time to go compare pics vs car....this will help immensely. I saw that mounts were mentioned, do you know what else in regards to the floor is being reproduced?

Jason

Hi Jason - The instructions I sent are for a Convertible, they are a little different than a hardtop or sedan. There is more information on body mounts at:

"SHOW YOU RIDE" Dick Koch's Red and White Sport Fury Restoration.

Dick.

Jason and everybody else:

Here is some more helpful information from our friend Alan Ralston, Even though he is working on a 59 Desoto it's the same for a 59 Plymouth.
Dick.

Wed, May 18, 2011 11:53:21 AMRE: Removing the body from the frame
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Dan: Yes, you are correct, the torsion bars are twisted during the adjustment process and exert tremendous torque trying to push the lower control arms downward. This spring (torsion bar) wants to return to the untwisted position. Extreme care must be used.

When I take apart the entire front suspension here is the procedure that I follow:

1) Jack the front of the vehicle off the floor and get all of the weight off the front wheels and tires. I normally remove the wheels and tires to have more room to access components.

2) Go to the rear of the torsion bars and clean up the adjusting bolt and anchor assembly as well as you can. With the body still on the frame, you will not have access to the anchor which is located above the brackets that are on the inside of the frame rails. This is a notorious trap for dirt and stones and sometimes the anchor is unable to rotate to relieve the tension because the brackets are packed solid with debris. I worked for hours to dig all of this crud out.

3) Once you feel confident that the anchor and bracket are as clean as possible you can start to turn the adjusting bolt. This is a large and long bolt that goes into a threaded fastener located on the anchor. If all goes well, the anchor will be able to turn to the unloaded position as the torsion bar un-twists to the natural position. The turning gets easier as the bolt is loosened.

4) At some point the torsion bar will be completed unloaded and the adjusting bolt can be completely removed.

5) As I said, my body was already off, so that made the next few steps much easier. However, it must be possible to do the steps with the body still on the frame. Pull the rubber seal off the anchor and push the seal forward on the torsion bar to get it out of the way.

6) You should now be able to lift up the anchor and the torsion bar and wiggle the two. The anchor needs to be pulled towards the rear of the car to come off of the end of the torsion bar. You might encounter a situation where the anchor and the torsion bar are "fused" together by rust and crud. In this case, the front of the torsion bar will pull out of the lower control arm. This is not bad. Do whatever you need to wiggle and tug the torsion bar out.

7) In the case where the anchor is still stuck to the rear end of the torsion bar but the bar come out of the lower control arm you will now be able to clean the anchor up a little more now that it is off the car. I had one anchor that was stuck so bad, I took it to the NAPA machine shop and the same fellow used that 20 ton press to push the end of the torsion bar out of the anchor. I had spent several hours (not kidding) trying to "knock" the anchor off the end of the bar using a block of wood (so as not to damage the parts) and a big hammer. The machine shop guy laughed at my naiveté when I told him the method that I was using!!! He pumped and pumped and finally a big POP and the two parts came apart.

Once the torsion bar(s) have been removed you can address removing the upper and lower control arms. Lisa, you are one step ahead by already removing the upper arms, but you still need to unload the torsion bars before you can go much further. Go to the back of the lower control arm and look into the opening where the front of the torsion bar came out. You will see a nut inside that has a cotter pin and a washer beneath the nut.

9) Believe it or not, you are going to need to remove the cotter pin! Good luck. I was able to use various sizes of needle nose pliers and dikes to remove most (but not all) of the cotter pin. Don't worry, as long as you have both the head of the cotter pin and the two tails removed, the nut will turn even though the main body of the cotter pin is left behind in the pivot shaft.

10) Remove the nut. The washer is too large to come out at this point. It will be removed when you press out the bashings, but the the lower control arm needs to come off the car first.

11) At some point you need to decide if you want to remove the lower control arm / spindle / upper control arm as a unit or to separate the ball joint studs from the spindle as Lisa did with the upper control arm. In the past, I have always removed these parts as a unit and this allowed me to have better access to the parts for final disassembly, as this work can now be done on the top of a work bench. Your call.

12) Remove the front shocks. There is a single nut on the top of the shaft. The end of the shaft has a flat spot so that you can hold the shaft while you use a second wrench to remove the nut. There is a through bolt and nut on the lower control arm. Compress the shock with your hand and it comes out easier when compressed.

13) Remove the two upper control arm cam adjusting bolts and nuts. This will now allow you to "flop" the upper control arm off the frame brackets. It is now possible to pull it outwards and the spindle will come away from the car. All of this is pretty heavy, especially if the brake drum is left on the spindle, so put a sheet of plywood or cardboard beneath the parts as you lower them to the floor.

14) By using some up and down motion, you will be able to turn the lower control arm on the shaft. By using some rearward pressure you can work the lower control arm backwards and at some point the entire assemble will come off of the pivot shaft that is still on the frame.

15) You now have a very heavy assembly, and you can do further clean up and prepare to remove the shaft of both ball joins from the spindle assembly. The alternative is to try to get the ball joint shafts out of the spindle with the parts still on the car as Lisa has done.

This is a real quick description and I am sure you will have questions. Please ask and I will try to clear things up if needed.

Alan

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I just noticed I am missing the 2 Frame mounts under the Rear Seat towards the middle. See blue tape in photo
I just found this post and I am looking for some clarification on how these 2 Mount to the Frame.
Is there a Stud that come off the frame to bolt to ? If so I am missing these and need some help and what to do.
What hardware do I need
Body Shop are not Restorers
Mark

Hey Mark - Looking good. The answer to your question is the two inner holes where it looks like a body mount should go it does not. Juct stick a couple of hole plugs there. See Pictures.
Dick.

Dick
Thanks ,
They were never drilled thru the floor pan, so I am good to go.
You saved me a lot time. I will sleep better tonight. I thought the Body shop missed other things
mark

Mark - Glad I could help, actually My sport fury uses those inner mody mounts. See picture.
Dick.

So How and with what do bolt them together.
Is the hole tapped in the frame?

Underneath is a support piece welded to the floor with a nut welded in it for the two door hardtop. The trunk floor body mount in the Sport Fury is a rubber puck with a tit on it that fits into a hole in the frame and the trunk floor just rests on the puck. The convertible trunk mount is much more elaborate and takes the place of the body mount you are asking about. It has the two piece body mount with a stud and nut to secure it.
Dick.

Dick
I am a little confused
I want to install 2 Inner Body Mounts that go under the rear seat.
Which rubber part and type of bolt goes at this location. for a Conv. Where can I buy some?
The hole in the frame under these mount is not accessible from the bottom.

Mark - Sorry if I confused you. The picture I sent you of my 2 dr. HT has four body mounts under the seat and all four are used. The Convertible only uses the Two outer body mount positions under the seat. The convertible forward trunk mounts (if they are like mine) has a stud that takes the male and female rubber mounts, likewise the outer positions under the seat use the male and female rubber mounts with I think a 3/8" x 2-1/2" sae bolt and nut with large dia. flat washers. If your car does not have the stud mount in the trunk then it takes a rubber pad with a tit on it that goes in a hole in the frame rail and the trunk just rest on it like the 2 dr. HT. I'm sending pictures of the mount under the seat, it mounts on the frame right in front of the forward spring perch. You will also see the under side of the forward trunk mount. I had to cut the nut and stud out on my car because of rust and use a nut in bolt as you will see in the picture. I hope this doesn't confuse you more. Every body mount in my car was metal, I changed to rubber.
Dick.