'59 Plymouth Forum

I was asked a question that I cannot answer...with convertibles, most often (if not always)there were no data plates. So how can a buyer of a Cvt determine what ws original?
I know there were only four interior color combinations (red, green, blue, and brown) and teh top canvas was either black, white, or green (anything esle?) but the exterior could be had in any 59 Ply color? (Ron gifted me a little options book but I cant find it right now)

Roger, My Beleveder convert did not have a data plate either, (I have yet to find a convert that does) but the only way I know of to see what was built on any car is to request a copy of the IBM build card from Chrysler Historical. It will tell you the original color, interior style and that is was a convert and its original Price/trim class of a SF or Belvedere. I still had remnants of my interior door panel, so I know what interior trim style it had. The front seat was missing, so I don't know if it had a swivel or 60/40 bench in it. So I have sent away for a copy of the IBM card on my cars VIN to find out. If one were to still have the original Window sticker(Monroney Label) that would help to identify the interior,price level and options of a car.

I believe that Converts were built in either one or two plants, not all 4 of them. But still tying to pin it down. Maybe we can take a pole of the converts in the club to see what the plant code is on the VIN to get this info....

I believe the VIN only will tell you the that it is a Plymouth, Price trim level (SF,Belvedere & Savoy) The VIN won't even say if it is for a 2 door HT. Sport Coupe or a Convertible, But for SF convert it would be have to start with a M29XXXXXXX for a SF (only availabel in a V8) or on a Belvedere it would be a M25xxxxxxx, V8 engine or a M15xxxxxx for a 6 cylinder (don't kow if they did make a 6 cylinder for a Belvedere Convert, still trying to find out) the Plant assembled at . I know my car and Tom Fox's car Beleveder was bult at the Evansville plant (M253xxxxxx) both were V8's.

This info is in the 59 Plymouth Factory sevice Manual supplement pn page 4 for those who would like to see the table. Both the 2door HT,/ Sport coupes, Converts and even the 4 doors all would start with the same prefix's. Only the IBM car would spell it out for a prospective buyer or owner what it left the plant as. Luckily these are all on file at Chrysler Historical in Auburn Hills, MI

Of course, the Convertible only came in the SF and the Belvedere price/trim levels. If anyone is considering buying a 59 Convert, I would suggest that the owner supply the prospective buyer with this copy of the IBM card which should tell all about what was on it from the factory when it left. This is a $50 dollar cheap insurance by getting this info (Provenance)to prove the color and trim level. The IBM card will indentify if it is a SF or Beleveder convert because it will have the color of the Convert top, Seat type, bench/swivel, and if it has a SF or Belvedere interior trim level etc coding.

I had called the Chrysler Historical phone number a few months back and this type of info is what they said can be gleaned from the copy of the IBM build car they can supply for the $50 fee (may have gone up since then). Perhaps Octie Hamm can be of some further assistance on these matters since he voulenteer's there in Auburn Hills after his retirement from Chrysler.

I am new at the 59 stuff, just got my car 2 years ago, so I will defer to others who have more experience on these cars or better info.

So to sum it up from my ramblings, The IBM card or the original window sticker is the only way to prove color and interior trim level on a data plate-less car.

John Q.

John,

I believe that none of the cars from the Evansville plant has a data plate. I have seen several hardtops that were build there and none of them has a data plate.

I do have the build sheet for my car but without the help of Ed Eckerson it would have been pretty useless. All it gives you is the codes and it is almost impossible to decode the rare options. You can find the colour codes in the book but there are a lot of codes on the build sheet that I never would have found without Ed's help. he has seen a lot of them and knows what most of the codes mean. If I have a question on late 50's Plymouth he is my source for the answer.

Ron

Ron, thanks for the update on Ed's knowledge of the build codes, I use to have this info from my old Chrysler Days but have not seen it (the code breakdown sheet) for years. I will defer to Ed on these issues.

PS did I hear you are moving to a new address and house? Is the address you gave me still good?

thanks!

John Q.

I agree, that card is hard to decipher. An accompanying letter clarifies it a lot though. One thing that is nice is that Chrysler Historical tells you the city and dealer where your car was shipped and the date it was built. For example my car was built on Nov 16, 1958 and shipped to a dealer named Lunderville & Nuttall in Los Banos, CA. So IF (I never will sell it) my car was sold, it can be said that it is a California car, which means a lot here in Wisconsin. BTW my car (2dr hardtop SF) was also built in Evansville - M293

You guys got me thinking...I know I got the build sheet for my Belvedere hardtop, (the one recently sold on eBay, and headed for FL)...but I realise I never sent for the build sheet for my present car.
That ought to be interesting...my car started life as a Belv cvt, then got married to a SF hardtop! I guess I'd put in a request for the Belv. I think I still have the VIN plate and title....as soon as I can save $50 (or more).
Years ago, I asked Iowa to send me a list of former owners (the car spent its first life in IA). The Privacy Act made the Iowa DMV black out all the names and addresses, but if I held the paper up to the light, I could still read it. Using the INternet, I phoned and/or wrote to teh former owners...without exception they all had fond memories of the car.

I never realized that convertibles never had a data plate. When I got mine, I figured the screws had rusted away, allowing the plate to fall off. It did still have the engraved badge on the glovebox, and I did an internet search on that fellow's name, and there was someone with the same name in the area where the car was found. I have not tried contacting anyone as of yet. ---John

Denver 59 Fin Convert wrote: PS did I hear you are moving to a new address and house? Is the address you gave me still good?

John Q.

No way I am going to move again!! Yesterday it was exactly one year ago that we moved here and we are here to stay. A house in the Netherlands with a garage big enough for three US cars is super rare! The only way to get me away here is with a green card and a nice job in Colorado

Ron

Ron, I will sponsor you and your bride if that helps to move here! I hope to get the headliner clips you and Dick both need tomorrow and send it with the template. The weather should be good...

John Q.

John, you sponsor Ron & Marjo -- I'll sponsor Matthew! I need a full-time mechanic!

Dan

Denver 59 Fin Convert wrote:Ron, I will sponsor you and your bride if that helps to move here! I hope to get the headliner clips you and Dick both need tomorrow and send it with the template. The weather should be good...

John Q.

Thanks for the offer! But if sponsoring was what we needed I would have been living in the USA for 5 years now. In the 50's and 60's a sponsor was all you needed but things have changed Now you need to win the lottery for a green card (less than a 1% chance) or have a million US $$ and invest at least half of it in a business that creates 15 jobs for Americans. These are the two options that are left for people who don't have a Mexican pasport

Ron

Did I hear someone say "Headliner clips". ???????????????

Dick, yes I picked up 5 of them today, you need 6 and Ron needs 4, I was going to go to the other yard today (has 3 59's in it) but got a call from one of my 4 brother's that he dislocated his Elbow and broke his forearm in Dallas in a work accident and is having surgery tomorrow at noon.
So I am on the 6 AM flight to Dallas from Denver to wait at the hospital for him during surgery. I will get there an hour before he goes in.He is not married and I am the closest to him to distance wise.....
So, I won't be able to go thru those other cars till next Monday when I am back.
Of course, while I am in Texas, I will look for any old yards to kill some time in...Maybe I can snag clips down there. Or spot a 300D Convertible for next to nothing....

John Q.

Ron. You can set up a US company (shell,of course) that employes over 190 59 Sport Fury lovers that are clamoring for 59 info for their restorations! Matthew, will be the staff mechanic, (if Dan will let us use him!) and you can pay us a dollar a year that we will rebate back to you under the table! what do you think!!!???

it's foolproof! or at least foolish!

oh Well

John Q.

John Q - I'm sorry to hear about your brothers accident, he definetly comes first, I will pray he comes thru this well. You are a lucky guy to have junkyards with old cars, we have several here but the oldest cars are mid 80's. Thanks for taking the time to look for the clips, 5 clips is good, but if you can't find anymore split them with me and Ron.
Thanks Again,
Dick.