Dick Koch's convertible

[Denver 59 Fin Convert]

I tried to enlarge this data tag and still can't read it. Even stranger is the way it is affixed to the firewall with a single phillips head screw thru the middle of it. I also don't see the VIN tag above the brake bracket either.
just some wild guesses.... Canadian Mayfair convert....Export? Military Sales convert? Random tag placed by Hoodlums...(ford guys!)

Only a close up of the tag and others viewing it will get us an answer...


John Q.

[rogerh]

Hey John Q, I like the general guesses of origin! Maybe Canada did these things differently.
Dick, the cvt VIN plate, if it exists on your car, should be on the little horizontal shelf at the top of the firewall, on the passengerside. Peel up that rubber weatherstrip in the area above the heater box.
Probably no Vin # on the Bill of Sale...
That Data plate sure is rusty, yet the area around it is not. This makes me think someone added that plate later.
You may be able to make a rubbing of the plate, then John and Matthew can decode it!
The reason Dick couldn't figure where the rear seat springs fit is (IMO) they are not correct for this car. The springset with the snaps has an obvious dip in the center, which no 59 Plymouth cvt had. ( checked the Showcase).
I sure am sorry one lift housing is missing.

[tomf]

I believe in the photo with the boot snaps, it is the seat back and the seat bottom is folded up against the back. You can see the seat frame with the arch that goes over the driveline hump. The next photo of a seat bottom might be the front bench bottom but doesn't really look like 59.

Tom

[rogerh]

John Q, you're needed..to compare your car's seat springs to Dick's. Get out the camera!
I agree with Tom that the pic of springs standing upright is in fact two sets of springs pushed together.
I do not remember the seat bottom "tunnel" being so squared off.
In any event, those springs are really rusted thin in places.

[Denver 59 Fin Convert]

I'm on it! Weird, I was at the local upholstery today to get bids on doing the interior for my convert.

Back in a Flash!


John Q.

[rogerh]

You once said you were gonna use a white interior from a late-model car?
No harm is shopping for prices....

Since it looks like your car is gonna be done before Dick gets a start on his, he won't be able to copy your car's seat springs.
I loaned some of my bare seat springs to the man who started restoration on Tom's car. He had someone cut down a HT seat back to fit his cvt.

[Denver 59 Fin Convert]

Ok, Dug them out and took the pictures in my Garage. Hope they help!

If there is a particular angle or view of any of the two pieces, let me know and I will zoom in on that part.



John Q.

[Denver 59 Fin Convert]

You once said you were gonna use a white interior from a late-model car?
No harm is shopping for prices....

Since it looks like your car is gonna be done before Dick gets a start on his, he won't be able to copy your car's seat springs.
I loaned some of my bare seat springs to the man who started restoration on Tom's car. He had someone cut down a HT seat back to fit his cvt.

Good memory Roger, My bride Pam, yesterday said what the heck get the interior done right! Love that Gal!

So out came all the interior pictures I took of other peoples Swivel seats cars and had an idea on what she wanted and explained it to my upholstery guy (sponsors our local Mopar clubs car show) And we will do a Belvedere Door panels and a type of pattern of a that I see on cars that looks like a SF seats but with out the Buckles, I will dig up that look on my Thread on my convert. Don't want to intrude any further on Dick's space.

John Q.

[rogerh]

Compare John Q's Picture #1, springset on the right,
with Dick's Pic #21 of springset. There are differences. I hope they fit!
If John measures the overall length of the seat he has, and compares that to John's, he'll have a better idea of the chances.
I can't recall now if any model's seat bottom fits a cvt.

[Dick Koch]

OK here is the tag info. I was in Hypoluxo, Fl about 15 miles south of me several months ago. There is a Car Museum there with a 59 Red SF Convertible that is absolutely Georgeous. I remember seeing a tag on the firewall but none on the cowl or door. There were two small holes on the cowl and mine has the two holes also, so I thought someone just moved the tag but apparently thats were it was supposed to be because I tried getting this one off. Took the screw out, stuck a knife under the botton to pry it off, bottom came up but the top has two small spot welds on each upper corner and it would not budge. I took a piece of paper and a pencil and made a shadow image as Roger suggested.

The 57/58 service manual on page 4 states: Body number location: The body number is stamped on a plate which is attached to the left side of the ENGINE SIDE of the dash. (I assume firewall).

See Picture: Seems to be a combination Vin/Data tag. Date: 0113
Serial: M255104283
Body: 255
Trim: 505
M255 Newark LP2N-1001
Paint: XX3 (XX is Iceberg White). What is the Three??
Other numbers: ???????

Since I have a bolt of black and white upholstery cloth with a gold thread I will use it for the interior (it was in the trunk of my green SF when I got it, glad I didn't put it on ebay). The vinyl parts of the seats and the door panels will be a slight off white if there is such a thing, to match the white in the cloth. I think black vinyl on the seats and door panels would be awful.
Since the factory color was Iceberg white that's the color it will be painted. The Dash and garnish moulding will be either Jet Black or a dark grey to mach the grey that is also in the upholstery cloth. Black carpet, Black top. What chall think.

The seat springs I have is the rear stuck together, it will be a delicate operation to seperate them. Over the years they have siamezed together and are very fragel. (rusted and crumbly). Dont know if I will be able to save/use them. My parts car still has the back seat in it so maybe it can be modified to work. Thanks for the pictures John they will be a great help. I still going to try and find proper seats and that Cylinder cover if possible.

John - Ford Guys would never do such a thing. Now Chvey guys is another story.

John at Big M - Can you help???

Matthew - Those are some nice offers, sure wish you lived on the side of the pond. Please enlighten me/us with any more information you can glean from this tag.
Thanks,
Dick.

[rogerh]

Okay then, I am satisfied it is the official tag.
Those of you who have received Build Sheets from Chrysler Historical can probably decipher the tag.

The Keijs gifted me a booklet which contains some order codes, so I will make some guesses here, guided by the booklet:
321=?
301= power steering
309= package including Sportdeck, side trim inserts, and two-tone paint.
Since it's a convertible, I am guessing the top fabric color was the "3" seen in
the Paint code. I don't know what color "3" is.
I used to have an interior color chart, but I think I sent it to the Keijs, along with a bunch of photos they are going to copy and then return to me.

Your car obviously had a blue interior. Maybe "3" = blue.
292= Powerflite, but this car has TF button trim plate
Is this the 4, 283rd Belvie cvt made, John?
There is a blue over white SF cvt pictured in the Showcase.
Black over white with gold thread feature sounds nice, Dick!

[Faulkner]

Matthew - Those are some nice offers, sure wish you lived on the side of the pond. Please enlighten me/us with any more information you can glean from this tag.

Dick, if Matthew moves in with me, you are welcome to stop by and see him anytime!

Dan

[Matthew Keij]

I guess the XX3 stands for Body: white / Insert: white (it had the sporttone inserts so this should be body color) and the 3 is for the cvt top.
Yours was scheduled on the 13th of January 1959.

I need to check some data plates to see if we can figure out more things.
Anyone got another plate like this? I have 3 over here, 2 that we got from Roger and 1 from the Fury but they are all different!
These are also mounted with 2 screws on the side while Dick's data plate is mounted with 1 in the middle. Mystery!

[Matthew Keij]

Alright! After some research i can come up with this:

301 = Power steering
309 = Sport deck
321 = Convertible top color, Black
292 = Powerflite transmission

PNT = Paint, Iceberg white

Date = 13th of January

Serial = VIN
Body = 255, Belvedere convertible V8
TRM = Interior, brown seat with orange bolster

[Dick Koch]

Roger: - It does have power steering. I think all 59 Plymouths, but I'm not sure, were all painted one color. Painted white tops, etc. were all done by owners. This was definately a 318 car, did they have powerflight on 318's.

Dan - It's a deal but only if he brings all, I said, all his extra 59 parts with him.

Matthew - That was quick, I have two Torqueflite transmission, so it will get one of them, I thought Powerflite trannys were only on 6 cyl engines. Brown and Orange, UGH, It's going to be black & White. Whats a bolster. What about production number.
Dick.