Hi all, I have just completed setting the engine back into the mounts of my SF (318 poly with 3spd manual trans + O/D) and now have a couple of questions if someone can help?
Going back a step, when i was installing sound proofing sheets to the floor pan I noticed that the transmission tunnel was not centred toward the rear of the car (closer to the passenger side)? did'nt think much more about it at the time, then when I got my seats back from the auto trimmer I again noticed that the cut out for the tunnel in the back seat was off centre to match
Now it gets interesting, when I dropped the engine and gearbox back into the car I have noticed that the engine is not central in the frame? my gear box mount lines up perfectly with the bolt holes in the cross member but the front of my engine is off to the passenger side by approx an inch and a half (measuring between the frame to the centre of the crankshaft bolt).
When I measure the supports that are welded to the frame, they too are different from side to side by approx 1 inch or so.
Can anybody put some knowledge to this?
Is it normal? and are the descepencies part of the enginnering or just inacurate measuring and welding back in "59
The only thing I can think of is that maybe the angles through the drivetrain have something to do with the load and degrees on the uni joint? but I would have thought that the engine block should sit and run exactly cetral of the frame?
Of course I didnt take particular notice of this when pulling it all out 2 yrs ago maybe I am just noticing it more at the moment while the front clip is all off, but if I need to rectify anything now is the time while all is accessable.
Hey Daniel! Actually the offset is due to long gone drunk Drive Train engineer at Chrysler.....
Naw! Look at the way the pinion area of the 8 3/4" center chuck in the Banjo style axle is off set a bit to the passenger side. The drive shaft tunnel is then slightly off set to correspond to the Pinion location (or visa versa) to the engine. The Engine then has to be scooted over to the passenger side for a direct shot to the rear. Which moves the propeller shaft (Drive Shaft) Tunnel to the passenger side.
This also allows room for the engine compartment steering column and brakes to fit in that area too. It would be cramped if not kick over a bit. All of these factors came into play when laying out drive train locations and planes.
This off set also allows more foot floor area for the driver to operate the Foot Feed (Accelerator pedal) and the brake and or clutch pedals. All of the above come into play but mostly for the Axle gears to function with drive shaft input to it. with no binding due to right or left deflection besides the normal drop angle it has to the axle. IMHO
John Q.
Last edited by Denver 59 Fin Convert on Thu May 27, 2010 9:01 pm, edited 2 times in total.
PS, the trans mount rubber insulator on the cross brace is also kicked to the right (passenger side) Which brings up another good point is to check to make sure the cross brace in not flipped to the Drivers side inadvertenly to comply with my first comments above.
Hi John,
Thanks for the detailed explanation, I think the long gone drunk enginner theory makes far more sense
I got back under the car again today and I appreciate what you mention in regards to the diff centre, however I am still a little bemused about other things, let me explain, the back of my gearbox sits exactly central of the frame rails (measures 15 3/4 inches from both sides), my rear rubber mount is symetrical not off set as you mentioned.
When I measure at the front of the engine I get 14 1/4 inches from the inside of the frame rail to the centre of the crankshaft on the passenger side and 16 1/2 inches on the drivers side.
The engine mounts are lining up exactly where they have been in the past as I can see the marks where they have bitten onto the frame, it just seems to be a long way off center?? Hmmmmmm
Daniel, of course my exposure for the 59's is that I have a convert and the cross brace is shorter due to the X member. But my insulator is kicked to the passenger side so all lines up with the main offset.
I will look to see if I have a picture to show of my brace......I have it in the car but the motor and trannie are not in yet.
Guys, here is a pic showing what I have been talking about, the yellow line is central of the frame and this shows how far off centre the front of my engine is while the back of the gearbox is exactly centre. has anyone else noticed the same as this on there engines?
Dan - Hopefully in a couple of days my firewall will be red and look as good as yours also. How about some more pictures (lots) of your restoration, we could all (me) use some ideas.
Thanks,
Dick
I never noticed this particular fact before, Dan, but if the propeller shaft tunnel is off center, you can be sure it was a factory design. Reason unknown, but John Quinn's theory makes good sense to me!
John's theory makes perfect sense when I look under the car at the diff set up, it is certainly off centre at the diff, then the tail shaft the goes to the gearbox where mine is exactly central of the car (of which the floor tunnel follows perfectly) but I just dont understand why the front of the engine then kicks off line again instead off remaining central. Again John is most likley correct in saying that there needs to be more room for the steering and brakes but it just doesn't look right, do you agree?
Has anyone else had a chance to have a quick look or measure of there cars to see if they're the same??
Dick I will attempt to get some more pics on soon, I might start up a new topic in "Show your Ride" and take you back to the start, its been a fun journey so far...still enjoying it alot but the closer I get to the finish line the quicker I want it to be finished so I can cruise
Your discovery got me wondering if all 59 bodies wee similarly done..this would mean that export right-hand drive units would actually have LESS room for the driver's feet and the steering would be MORE cramped than if the engine were centered...
My car has a 361, so the measurements wouldn't be the same as yours, but it is tempting to take measurements, regardless.
However, it's 52 degrees and raining on this last day of May, so I won't be doing it today!
For sure these engines are offset to the right, as John Q points out for a variety of reasons. The reason I have know for years, is its make the u-joints flex and distribute the wear. If they ran in a straight line they would tend to not rotate and hammer the same spot. This thought has been around for a long time in farm and construction equipment.
Attached photo shows the offset on my Belvedere convertible
Thanks for posting the pic of your engine, (pictures tell a thousand words) the off set looks to be the same as mine so I am a lot happier now to know that this is normal.
BTW that is one clean engine in you car! Cheers mate
maybe I am just noticing it more at the moment while the front clip is all off, but if I need to rectify anything now is the time while all is accessable.
