repairing a power window motor

[Faulkner]

How do you lower a rear window when it isn't going down with the p/w switch??

(*sigh*) If it's the motor, Matthew, the only way I know is to remove the panel and turn the drive shaft by hand. If the motor is frozen, as in my case, you will first have to remove the motor. But then, you will need to do that anyway to repair it! But first check to see that you have power at the switch -- check with a VOM from the switch to ground. If you've got power, jump the wires to the switch with another wire. If that doesn't work -- sounds like the motor.

Another question. Our driverside rear window isn't going down with the switch there. It is going down with the switch where the driver sits (the master switch). What can this be??????

This sounds like the switch is bad -- confirm by the check above. Good luck!

Dan

[Matthew Keij]

I've got power on the wires for sure. I don't have to try to change wires cause the window always did his work but last year it refused to work. If you turn the switch down or up and you put your finger on the wires you feel the wires getting hot. Is this the motor or the switch?? The other side is the switch for sure. I know it now. I will try to find another one. Or is it easely repaired??? I hope everything will work. We want to remove the roofweatherstrip and put a new one in

[Guest]

Matthew, if the wires are getting hot, not only is the motor locked (either internally frozen, or locked by the regulator somehow), but the internal circuit breaker is not operating.

With bad weatherstripping, the panel could fill with water to cover the motor, and often they rust out. This is what happened to mine. It could be that your circuit breaker is rusted shut too...

Definitely, try removing the motor and confirm that it is not operational by putting 12V to it (unless it's frozen!). Better yet, bring it on over and I'll have a look!!

Dan

[Faulkner]

Oops, sorry, forgot to log in...

Dan

[Matthew Keij]

Oke, i will take a look in the service manual how to get them out. How long would it take???? Next month we have the biggest dutch meetings with only 1950-1960 cars and then we meet the other 59 SF

[rogerh]

Dan, Matthew says the window operates fine from the master switch. The wires only get hot when trying to operate from separate window switch. This indicates a short in the individual switch...how this could happen, I cannot imagine. Pull out the switch and bench test it. And, while the switch is out, you could short the wires, to see if the window operates from that location. If it doesnt, then there is a problem with the wiring.

[Matthew Keij]

The rear window on the passenger side doesn't work at all. This should be the motor??? That window always worked until last year.

The rear window on the driver side only works from the masterswitch. That would be the switch that is broken??

[Faulkner]

Dan, Matthew says the window operates fine from the master switch. The wires only get hot when trying to operate from separate window switch. This indicates a short in the individual switch...how this could happen, I cannot imagine. Pull out the switch and bench test it. And, while the switch is out, you could short the wires, to see if the window operates from that location. If it doesnt, then there is a problem with the wiring.

I think you're referring to the driver's side, Roger -- I believe the wire heating occurs on the passenger side. The E.E. in me knows that, unless the wires short to ground somewhere (and this wouldn't be in the switch, it floats in the panel), there wouldn't be excessive current draw. the effective short to ground is through the motor, because it's not spinning and make/breaking a circuit that raises the impedance. That's when the circuit breaker should kick in -- but apparently it's not, so the wires heat as a result.

The only other possibility is a short in the wire to ground between the switch and the motor -- but I'm betting on the motor being frozen.

Dan

[rogerh]

so i ought to read more carefully!

[Faulkner]

Well, it turns out that Tom was right: With the motor assembled, the bushing sits in the will and there is no side-to-side displacement of the armature -- no danger of rubbing against the field magnets. However, there is a lot of end-to-end play -- not that the retainer would prevent that either. But because the motor sits in a near vertical position, and because it's attached to the drive mechanism, I don't think this is anything to worry about either.

What I am worried about, is an internal short. Looks like some of the old wiring from the field magnets or the backing plate are shorting against the housing; the motor fails to run, and my power source's breaker kicks in. In some places, the insulation is cracked and breaking off. I'm thinking I'll solder some new multi-strand wire in place, same or heavier guage. This will allow me to more easily put the slack into the pockets, without worrying about them breaking down against the housing.

What a project this turned out to be! Still hopeful, though.

Dan

[Matthew Keij]

I'm lucky today! I don't need to rebuilt 1 or 2 motors. We bought 2 on e-bay for $40 each. Can't wait till they arrive

[Faulkner]

Oy! Matthew, how did you and your dad find them?!

You know, the front motor is different than the rear motor... (at least, in my car they are).

Dan

[JSSuper]

Thats a good find...

Gee-my SF didn't come with power windows.. But after reading through the difficulty with them (age caused it really) then its probably a good thing for me that my car has manual cranks

After-all I've got enough problems of my own to deal with

[Matthew Keij]

We found them on e-bay. We bought them when we saw them. We checked the numbers and it would be the rear motors because the numbers match the rear motors number in the parts book.
JSSuper, be happy that you don't have power windows. My brother also i happy with that!

[Faulkner]

...What I am worried about, is an internal short. Looks like some of the old wiring from the field magnets or the backing plate are shorting against the housing; the motor fails to run, and my power source's breaker kicks in. In some places, the insulation is cracked and breaking off. I'm thinking I'll solder some new multi-strand wire in place, same or heavier guage. This will allow me to more easily put the slack into the pockets, without worrying about them breaking down against the housing.

What a project this turned out to be! Still hopeful, though.

Dan

Yeah, well, I'm not so hopeful anymore. I did all of the above, put the motor back together, and the armature turns freely; then, I apply power, and the armature turns maybe 10 degrees, and locks. Remove power, it turns freely; apply power, and it locks. I'm beginning to think there's a short in the armature now; I guess I could buzz out the windings, but I'm tired of playing Electrical Engineer (even though I am one). Time to hunt down a working motor on eBay.... (*sigh*)

Dan