Trying to get my bearings

Post by **Faulkner** » Sat Sep 17, 2005 2:57 pm

OK, so I'm trying to get a little more life out of Faulkner, before I break down and get a complete engine rebuild. I don't have the time to pull the engine right now, and I don't have the money -- but I've got to get the oil pressure up to an acceptable level. I plan to drop the pan, clean the screen, and perhaps install a high-volume oil pump. I'm wondering if it doesn't make sense to replace the crank and rod bearings at the same time.

Here's a great little technical publication on how to do it:

http://www.imperialclub.com/Repair/Lit/ ... /cover.htm

Likely, my 318's crank has a little bit of taper, if not worse, and the loose fitting is causing my pressure to drop. But might it not pay to replace the bearings anyway, even the journals have some wear? If it causes an increment in pressure increase, for a few thousand miles -- it would be worth it to me, until I'm in a better position to get the engine rebuilt.

Take the poll at the top of this post, let me know your opinion...

adTHANKSvance
Dan

batmobile · Post by **batmobile** » Sat Sep 17, 2005 4:31 pm

if ur top end is good, and u don't suspect cam/bearing failure, i would recommend lower bearings and turn the crank. u can measure and make sure if it is still within specs, but i would just machine it since they do taper often like u mentioned. for a sbc motor the going rate 2 years ago was $50 to turn crank. pretty inexpensive insurance. i would go with a stock-pressure pump. the high pressure/volume i have used 2 times in used motors where the bearings were still in good shape. i will just about GUARANTEE oil leaks/comsumption. u will look like a freight train rolling down the road. lol. when installing gaskets use the proper sealant. i have used numerous brands of black silicone with moderate results. i have found that "the right stuff"(permatex) works excellent. i have had 0 leaks on everything i have used it on, and i use it on EVERYTHING(except for high heat situations-like exhaust). of course u can't use it on gas related parts(ie-carb.,tank). i swear by it, and everyone that uses it never goes back to the silicone, it's that good. i hope i have helped u out some from telling u some of my mistakes in years past, wish u luck on ur motor/car.

sportfury1959 · Post by **sportfury1959** » Mon Sep 19, 2005 6:29 pm

Dan,

Do I understand you right? You suppose that your crank bearings are worn out and therefore the oil pressure that’s built up by the oil pump drops down by bypassing the crank bearings. Is that’s what you mean?

If so, I had the oil pan removed just a couple of weeks ago. It is simple to the cups with the bearings but that doesn’t mean that the upper bearings can be removed. The crank sticks still in the torque converter and transmission. Also the engine housing is bolt to the transmission. All that gives a pretty solid unit that most likely doesn’t allow to “bent” the crankshaft sufficiently down and remove all the upper bearings.

High performance pump: As a first step to get closer to the origin of the problem I would try another stock pump and the paper gasket between the pump and engine. A high performance pump wouldn’t solve your problem but hides it.

Stefan

Post by **Faulkner** » Sun Sep 25, 2005 5:07 pm

sportfury1959 wrote:Dan,

Do I understand you right? You suppose that your crank bearings are worn out and therefore the oil pressure that’s built up by the oil pump drops down by bypassing the crank bearings. Is that’s what you mean?

If so, I had the oil pan removed just a couple of weeks ago. It is simple to the cups with the bearings but that doesn’t mean that the upper bearings can be removed. The crank sticks still in the torque converter and transmission. Also the engine housing is bolt to the transmission. All that gives a pretty solid unit that most likely doesn’t allow to “bent” the crankshaft sufficiently down and remove all the upper bearings.

Stefan, the master mechanic booklet says you can remove the upper bearings by putting a pin in the crank oil hole and turning the crank. There's a little ear in the bearings, so you have to turn the crank the right way! But here's a pictorial of a guy that replaced his bearings on the imperial website: http://dte.net/57imperial/73saga/73Part21.htm

I'm tempted to try it. At least, if I drop the pan and see that the crank isn't scored or anything like that, I don't think I have anything to lose by replacing the bearings. I might actually gain some oil pressure, enough to make Faulkner driveable until I get the time and money to rebuild the engine. But first, I have to get the steering linkage apart!! Oh, I wish that Matthew Keij were here...

sportfury1959 wrote: High performance pump: As a first step to get closer to the origin of the problem I would try another stock pump and the paper gasket between the pump and engine. A high performance pump wouldn’t solve your problem but hides it.

Yeah, and I've heard it can actually make the problem worse. I'm going to make sure it's not worn, and that the screen is clear, but other than that I'm going to leave it alone.

Dan

sportfury1959 · Post by **sportfury1959** » Mon Sep 26, 2005 5:53 am

Dan,

Thanks for the lesson. I didn’t know that! In this case I really think you have nothing to loos when you change the bearings. I’d like to know how much a set of bearings cost.

Stefan

Post by **Faulkner** » Mon Sep 26, 2005 8:59 pm

I spoke tonight to Kerry Pinkerton, the guy who wrote the article on the Imperial website. In order to keep the oil pressure up, he suggested:

1) I run straight 50W non-detergent oil
2) I replace the oil pump with a high-volume (not, high-pressure) oil pump. [he claims that when he rebuilt a Chebbie engine, the parts guy offered standard, high volume, and high pressure -- and that the part numbers were different for each!]
3) That I drop both the crank and rod bearings after I drop the pan, and have a look. If there's copper showing in the bearings, that means the babbit is worn, and there's a real possibility that I could gain something by replacing the bearings (provided there isn't any indication that the crank is scored or otherwise damaged).

So, what do I have to lose? Bearings are about 30 bucks a set -- while it may be tough to get to the front bearings (I may actually have to lift the block, even to get the pan out), I can't do any damage -- and I could really gain something. Kerry says the bearings are stamped on their back if they are undersize, so I can at least replace them with what they last were (if the crank had already been turned).

Stay tuned. It will be a while before TWSAM gets around to this. But I think I'm up for it!

Dan

rogerh · Post by **rogerh** » Mon Sep 26, 2005 9:04 pm

it was a bad experience, so I've blocked it out for the most part, but I did attempt to replace the rear main seal on a 57 Ply 318..and it did require loosening the engine mounts and jacking up the front of the engine block in order to get the oil pan off.
Now you have all the information you need to start this project. We shall all learn from your efforts.

Post by **Faulkner** » Mon Sep 26, 2005 9:38 pm

rogerh wrote:it was a bad experience, so I've blocked it out for the most part, but I did attempt to replace the rear main seal on a 57 Ply 318..and it did require loosening the engine mounts and jacking up the front of the engine block in order to get the oil pan off.

Roger, fortunately I won't have to replace the rear seal -- that's already been done. But tell me -- when you jacked up the block, do you recall where you put the jack? And, did you find it necessary to drop the lead pipe on the exhaust, and/or the starter motor?

Thanks
Dan

batmobile · Post by **batmobile** » Mon Sep 26, 2005 10:22 pm

u cannot get high pressure OR high volume, they r one and the same, even though the part numbers r different. i got a "high volume" oil pump in my '78 chevy 305 and i hate it. it has 50 psi @ idle when cold with 40 weight oil. it smokes and leaks. stock cork gaskets seep oil, i had to replace with rubber. i am now running 50 weight, detergent oil (u DO NOT want non-detergent, it will turn black and sludge up in no time, i have tried it), and on top of the 50 psi cold, when i hammer it and bring the motor up to about 5 grand, it jumps up to 75 psi. remember stock they r only supposed to have 45 psi. so on urs, just remove the crank, machine, bearings, timing chain, stock oil pump. if u buy the high pressure pump(i bought a melling), u will notice that they come with a stock spring to convert the pump back to standard pressure so, i'm sure that i'm not the only one that cusses them out.---jeremy

rogerh · Post by **rogerh** » Mon Sep 26, 2005 11:16 pm

it's only a dim memory, but I'd hazard a guess that I did not do anything other than remove the engine mount nuts, put a bottlejack under the main crank pulley area..(used a small wood block to spread out the "lift" pressure), and jacked it up about 2 inches. At some point the pan becomes removeable (what with the depression in the pan clearing the steering arms...etc) I might have had to release the steering arm.

sportfury1959 · Post by **sportfury1959** » Tue Sep 27, 2005 3:58 am

Dan,
I removed the oil pan a couple of month ago and I had the same doubts.

1. As Roger said, after loosen the front motor mounts I put a hydraulic bottle jack between the front cross member (right under the radiator) and the water pump and it worked perfect. I have to mention that the radiator was out at this time.
2. I didn’t either loosen the exhaust pipes.
3. Don’t forget to remove the distributor before rising the engine! The cap might go against the firewall while lifting the block.

Stefen

roberthinds · Post by **roberthinds** » Fri Oct 07, 2005 4:23 pm

Go ahead and drop the pan, you won't know what is wrong without removing the pan. It could be as simple a fix as cleaning the screen or replacing an oil pump gasket. If you do decide to replace the pump you should stick with a stock pump. Check the pressure relef valve to make sure it is not sticking open. Do use a high detergent oil. Was the engine knocking? If not the bearings might be OK and the problem could be elsewhere. What is your oil pressure? Did you verify the pressure with an accurate gauge? Check the service manual for the pressure range. Good luck.

safetymike1977 · Post by **safetymike1977** » Sat Oct 15, 2005 11:30 pm

See my other post... you come get it, you can have ALL of my poly stuff.... Free...

'59 Plymouth Forum